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Messages - John Roth

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HOW would you describe the michael teachings to a logical left brained scientist?(that's what I'm asking YOU) Why? Well because perhaps if Michael teachings could attract more skeptics, then it there would be a pressure to receive more channeling and further evolve the teachings. Sharing the teachings to a wider audience can only produce more involvement with the Midcasual entity and earth, and giving us more information to make the grand connections between science and spirituality. So absolute truth could be broadly known and clumsy limiting belief structures can be burnt down.

Telling people who are already in agreeable compliance with the teachings doesn't usually ignite constructive skepticism that can improve what already exists. It pressures us to validate it more if there is people demanding more proof.


I HAVE tried to share it with some people, and the above it what I have realised from that experience. Even people who are fully open to the idea of channeling were not attracted to it, at least not the way I am (for example one such person preferred teaching of Veronica Entity and yet another one did her own channeling of some sort of guides). They listened, they asked questions, but that was it. One even looked around, and it just was not for her. Whereas when I did that as a newbie, I got hooked.

People who are attracted to the teaching usually have an agreement with Michael, frequently over several lifetimes. There are a few people who discovered Michael while they were incarnate and became intrigued, but that's fairly rare. That's why the teaching is loaded with first and second cadre people. It's not that those two cadres have most of the late mature and old souls -- far from it. It's that those two cadres are in an energetic relationship with the Michael entity where Michael is an obvious candidate for the teacher slot.


How did this topic get changed from "how to tell people about Michael" to a discussion on sex switching?

The ripple effect in action from MeliaNamaste's last comment.

I'm going to put on the moderator hat and say to make a new topic to discuss sexuality.

John Roth

Karma / Re: Philanthropic Karma
« on: November 09, 2011, 05:07:15 PM »
I ran across this in a reread of MMfM a few days ago.  I don't have the exact phrasing of it in front of me, but it seems to be a reversal of normal karma where a choice is removed, and instead a choice is offered.  As with normal karma, though, the gesture is repaid down the line in kind.

I'm still pondering the full implications of this, but so far it seems funny that doing something (profoundly) nice for another might not just be balancing a previous debt, but could also create an imbalance in and of itself.  Any other thoughts on this kind of karma?

Philanthropic karma represents a choice on both party's part: one to provide support, the other to accept it. The people involved will need to do this the other way to balance it. Whether it's "philanthropic karma" or a strange kind of monad or what, the mechanism seems to be similar - Essence wants to examine the issue from all sides, which means both giving and receiving philanthropic gifts.

Maybe they've also found it helpful, because of the content in a Text of (I believe Joya Pope) on the website (under soul ages), wherein it's said, that old souls typically incarnate in the sex, they less prefer , to balance energy. Also it's written, that all old souls (and later mature) have subconscious contact to both female and male characteristics (or something like that, but you know what I mean).
But what you said, could be true, as well.

Greeting, jo

Yeah but not all homosexuality exists on the old soul paradigm. That was just meant in regards to having several lives of each sex so much that a balance is then obtained.

Like think about this, say your essence has been incarnating in a female body for 18(probably not uncommon) life times in a row, and now to further experiences and growth, it decides to incarnate in a male for once. Chances are that it's still going to identify with the feminine pysche a lot. Then perhaps after 2-4 life times in a male body, the essence finally grounds itself into the masculine psyche and adopts its native behavior.  Makes sense doesn't it?

IIRC, from what JP had channeled, the usual limit is about three lifetimes in the same body type before it's really a good idea to switch sexes. Sometimes mixed gender (LGBT) is chosen, sometimes it just happens and Essence accepts it because it won't impact what Essence wants out of the lifetime.

I don't know about everyone here, but for me, its awkward when trying to describe where it comes from. It's almost instantaneous that questions start to arise, and suspicion of a cult following creeps in. You then have to go on and describe in detail beliefs of reincarnation, life after death, the tao, other worlds ect... A lot of my friends suspect I'm delusional. I keep telling them that its not a spiritual teachings to enlightenment, but a mere template to understand the energetic vibrational flows and structure of the cosmic universe we reside in. Although most people I have trouble telling it too, are early mature. I don't even attempt with anything below that.

I usually don't bother.

However, if the question does come up, I usually lead with the three most important things in the teaching: validate, validate and validate. It's important to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.

John Roth

Paranormal / Re: Paranormal Witness
« on: November 03, 2011, 10:24:38 PM »
okay, so I've watched Paranormal witness, and seen episode 3 which has real poltergiest footage. To say the least, its creepy. Has there been channeling done that could explain how exactly this happens? How does something just move objects everywhere around the room, possess at will, and make attempts to kill you? I've seen another one where "vox" comes from an ouija board and torments everyone. As an occasional oujia user(mostly to contact Michael but not very well), this creeps me the f out.

These are dramatizations; they're not real footage of the actual events. Here's a Q & A with the producer:

If you're using a oujia board, I presume you're doing some kind of protective ritual first? That isn't because there's anything inherently bad with the tool.

John Roth

General Discussion / Re: Practical Everyday Ways to Live the MT
« on: October 28, 2011, 02:46:20 AM »
Does anyone have any practical suggestions on how to live the MT on a day-to-day basis?  Or at least strive toward that goal?

For instance, is there any way to photograph yourself to see whether you are at your real age, or whether you are manifesting a younger age?  And, if so, how to manifest your true age when appropriate?

I think this is putting the cart in front of the horse. The purpose of "photographing" is to increase awareness of what behavior looks like that you may want to change. It lets you take a bit of behavior and study it later.

I wouldn't worry about "acting your soul age." It'll happen or it won't, and, frankly, nobody, including your Essence, cares. If it did, it would find ways of making it happen.

Quote from: Betty
Or:  when I am dealing with someone whom I truly dislike, how do I turn that into a lesson of growth?

There are lots of reasons to dislike someone. This is where photographing can come in: note what kind of reaction you have and what kind of situation it occurs in. Then try to map out the overleaves involved and see which ones abrade. Once you've narrowed it down to "when she does X, then I do Y, and she does Z, and it spirals out of control," you're in a position to work on doing something else.

You may never actually like that person, but having a non-confrontational relationship can sometimes be a vast improvement.

Quote from: Betty
Or:  when I despair of ever making enough money, how do I accept the situation - or change it, as the case may be?

This is where we need to talk about technique. Michael hasn't talked a lot about things like prosperity, and there isn't a lot in the MfM books. One reason that occurs to me is that the original Michael group started out as a Gurdjief group, so most of the members knew the techniques and it wasn't necessary to get them from Michael.

Another is that the techniques, in various pure, diluted and distorted versions, are all over the New Age community. This isn't the place to write a textbook on affirmations and creative visualization, and even if it was, I'm not the person to write it.

That said, here are a couple of pointers. One is that we continuously create our reality. This is a lot more profound than it sounds, because it means that we can't not create our reality. If we continuously worry about whether we're going to have enough money, then that's the reality we're creating. Fifteen minutes a day with even the best crafted affirmation or creative visualization won't balance out several hours of worry a day about what will happen if you don't have enough money.

This leads to the second pointer: learn to walk before trying to run. What I mean by that is to use the techniques on things that you aren't really worrying about, but where you will notice when they work. This means that energy you're putting into creating something in your reality isn't going to be sabotaged, at least by anything you're aware of.

Success in small things breeds confidence in larger things.

A third pointer: learn a divination technique. Since this is a Michael group there's lots of attention to channeling. It can be just as useful to learn how to do a few useful Tarot spreads, or use the I Ching oracle, or any of several dozen other techniques. Get in the habit of using your technique, whatever it is, to ask what the influences and likely outcome of anything you're planning on doing that's out of the ordinary. Asking about a planned affirmation would be a good idea. Keep a record.

Quote from: Betty
These are just a few examples; I'm sure there are a lot more that are even more pertinent to striving toward growth and agape.  My brain is tired right now, though.




John Roth

Artisan / Re: thinking too complicated
« on: October 16, 2011, 02:59:52 AM »
Could it be, that this is a problem, at times, to artisans in general? Saw it sometimes in other people and myself, too.
So if you want to understand something, you can't understand it, because of you are thinking too complicated.
And then, after a while, you look at it again, maybe someone else try's to explain it to you. And then you realize, how simple it is.

Greeting, jo

That sounds more like a goal of Growth. The negative pole is confusion, and the positive pole of the opposite overleaf is simplicity, which one passes through on the way to the positive pole of Growth, which is evolution.

It's also a fairly standard experience for most people. It's the basis of the rather common advice that, when you're confused, put whatever it is aside for a while and come back to it later. That's why, in classes, for example, I'll read the text three times, at one week intervals. Or when I'm writing something, I'll put it aside and come back to it later to read it and see what needs to be improved.

John Roth

General Discussion / Re: What is your diet?
« on: September 25, 2011, 01:28:25 PM »
I'm on the see-food diet. See food, eat food. ;D

Hm. That works better spoken than printed.

Soul Age / Re: POLL: What is Your Soul Age?
« on: September 16, 2011, 05:05:58 PM »
ok, thanks. But doesn't it has to be called "within a given time". Because there is no average "at a given time" ::).
maybe within the given time of one day or week/month/year...
I see my scholar ET ^^

Greeting, jo

Prepositions that refer to time are interesting. It's at a given time, on a given day, in a given month. It seems to regard time as a place that has a size relative to your size: you can be near a small amount of time (at), on an amount of time that's the same size you are, or inside a block of time that's much larger than you are.

You can see the progression from something you can stand close to (at), something you can stand on (on) and something you can be within (in). This is part of the "everything is a metaphor for everything else" school of linguistics.

Michael seems to be discussing a single point in them, you seem to want to regard is as a more extended period.

John Roth

From the website: "One interesting point about a person in this Pole is, that he is attracted to the very things he despises. He involves himself in the very things he condemns. There is a game going on here — the payoff is that he finds the rejection he seeks and his Goal is fulfilled, albeit in this distorted and perverse form. In its most extreme manifestation, this Pole appears as pure hatred."

Noticed that sometimes in myself (and behaviour), although I'm not always quite sure, if it's maybe because of another push-pull :/.
Don't really understood, why I/someone should do this. I mean, why go to something/someone, subconsciously just to get pushed away in the same way, I/he/she feel(s)/think(s) about it, too.
Would like to understand this phenomenom. So I can see it, and distinguish it from other push-pulls, that aren't so unnecessary.

Greeting, jo

This is self-karma. It means there's still something to learn.

This came up a couple of times yesterday, involving AA. A person who's involved with AA is still heavily invested in alcohol, they're just rejecting it and hanging out with other alkies who are also rejecting it rather than accepting it and hanging out with them while getting drunk. If they were no longer involved, they not only wouldn't be attracted to the booze, they wouldn't be attracted to people who have that kind of addiction issue. Nor would they care about how much anyone else drank, as long as they didn't fall over drunk on their doorstep.

As far as the person you mention, unless there's some kind of karmic tie or agreement she's from Central Casting. What I mean by that is that your two Essences chose each other because each of you brings up an issue that the other needs to resolve. That isn't necessarily the same issue, or even the same kind of issue. If that's the case, once you identify the issue and either resolve it or find some other way of working on it, she'll vanish.

John Roth

John Roth

Soul Age / Re: Old souls living a normal family life??
« on: September 13, 2011, 07:16:14 PM »
Are there old souls (actually manifesting old soul age) who are living a so called normal family life, married with kids etc, with a job to provide for the family and actually feeling happy that way.

Good question.  I'm sure there are plenty of old souls living this way.  In fact, from the MT members that I know of/read about, I was a little surprised that so many were married (and often long-term marriages), had children, went to church, etc.  The church/religion thing really surprises me.  I know, even MFM "founding members" reconciled the MT with churchgoing, but it still surprises me.

My understanding was that the late-level old soul really didn't have much interest in all that anymore.  That the old soul didn't really participate in "society" any more and was often nomadic.  I guess I need to read it again, because that doesn't seem to be the case with the MT members, many of are late-level old.   :-\

Living on the physical plane is about living on the physical plane. I know that sounds circular, but the point is that families and society are part of life as human beings on the physical plane. So is not having a family, or withdrawing from society, however you're not going to pass the "final exam" if you don't take the test, which is living a normal life, meeting the challenges head on and surmounting them with aplomb. That doesn't, of course, mean that the final life is going to look like the Young soul success fantasy, the Mature soul angst and drama or the Baby soul "upstanding member of the traditional community." It's going to be highly individual.

As far as church goes, there are churches and there are churches. The membership in my Unitarian congregation happens to be around a third "nature religions or similar," for which read neo-pagan or similar. This probably isn't what you were thinking about when you said "church." I know of several other denominations that are heavily magical in orientation or very spiritual.

General Discussion / Re: Dreams
« on: September 06, 2011, 05:27:34 PM »
I would add something to it. But unfortunately I'm not having any intersting to add :S.
Do you know what meaning fighting dreams have? I sometimes have them. The last one was very detailed. I fighted with Laserswords against two other men (or one of them was with me, don't know). Is there a clear, distinct, exactly meaning for this?  ::) And it didn't felt very fun.

Do you know a good book for understanding the meaning of dreams? Chiara, you said the book "Earth to Tao". But there are just some passages about this theme, in the book. Right? Or is it enough?  Thanks <img src="" alt="Anbetender Smilie" width="27" height="22" />
Greeting, jo

I agree with Chiara. Dream dictionaries are, at best, worthless. Dreams are either symbolic; past, future or parallel life memories; or the result of the brain's housekeeping operations. You treat the first and third the same way. Write the dream down, list each and every element, and ask yourself what it means. If you've made a sufficiently detailed list you'll find that some of the elements resonate with things that are going on in your life that day.

One thing to look at is the structure of the element rather than the exact representation. A wall, for example, can mean many things. Is it limiting? Is it protective? Is it there to hold up the roof? Is it there to define a space?

These kinds of dreams have a tendency for the elements to repeat; that is, the same element will tend to reoccur when the same issue has raised its head in your life that day.

Once you've resolved the issue that's attached to a particular element, that element tends to vanish from your dreams, either because Essence (the force behind symbolic dreams) no longer thinks it's something you need to work on, or because your brain has it figured out and it doesn't come up in its nightly housekeeping and filing work.


John Roth

Soul Age / Re: POLL: What is Your Soul Age?
« on: September 05, 2011, 11:29:59 PM »
John Roth (who was channeled as 1st old and 6th old, both by JP (*).)

That's interesting, John.  Which one do you believe is true?

My age was validated by two channelers as 1st old, which is what I believe it to be, also.

There are a number of reasons why I regard Joya Pope's overleaves to be somewhat unreliable. This was around 20 years ago, and she may have improved. 6th old is probably correct, or at least as close as it's going to get.

John Roth

General Discussion / Re: Robert Burton
« on: September 04, 2011, 01:58:07 PM »
Yeah man, what's up with that? This guy right I don't know anything about him, but if he was sexually coercive that is very messed up.

It made me doubt 'Michael' a little bit. Someone should ask Michael for updates on this guy, if he isn't a creep. I duno, I didn't get too into the website, it didn't really resonate with me.

In the transcripts it also said there was someone alive who was going to refute the bible and stuff. I would like updates on that. Did he change his mind?

Since I haven't seen the transcripts I have no idea what you're talking about. "Refute the bible?" The Bible is huge. Specifically what in the bible were they talking about?

However. There was quite a bit of talk about another manifestation of the Infinite Soul sometime in the near future. Then it got postponed to the 30s, and now it might have been called off because either we're doing well enough without it, or it's washed its hands of us. (Take your pick.)

About the Burton thing. Something that many Michael students kind of ignore is that Michael is not ominscient. They don't know everything to the last decimal place of accuracy at the snap of a metaphorical finger. (*) Some time ago JP did some channeling on how Michael works. It turns out that they allocate a certain amount of energy to researching a question, and they frequently start with what the questioner knows. If they run out of their search depth before they get out of the web of maya the questioner is embedded in, the result will reflect the maya, not "the truth," whatever that may turn out to be.

So when you get an answer from a cult channel that tells cult members that the cult leader is going to be the Infinite Soul, I'd take it with a large amount of skepticism. What it tells me is that Michael isn't interested in putting a lot of energy into researching the question, nothing more or less. Either that or the channel can't understand what Michael is telling him. (**)

John Roth

(*) What is the sound of one finger snapping?

(**) "It's difficult to get a man to understand something if his job depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair

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