Mature & Old Souls

[Doris]

Mature and old souls seem so gosh darned similar to me. Is there anyway to tell the difference?

Doris

[Wayne]

I've wondered the same thing myself.

[John Roth]

It can be difficult if you don't know what's been channeled for a specific person.

There are a few rules of thumb I use. These aren't definitive, of course.

The first has to do with individualism vs social cohesion. Baby and Mature souls tend to be "plugged into" society, Infant, Young and Old souls tend to be individualists, although for very different reasons. A "typical" mid to late mature soul is much more likely to want to take collective action, possibly through government channels, than a typical Old soul. The Old soul is much more likely to let the situation develop in whatever way it wants.

A second has to do with "effective time frame." Mature souls tend to get concerned when they see problems in the 20 year time frame. Young souls tend to get concerned when the see problems in the 3 to 5 year time frame. Old souls can be concerned with problems they see in any time frame. To finish this off, Baby souls tend to go with the one year agricultural cycle, and Infant souls only react when a problem walks up with a club.

Mature souls usually are involved in lots of relationship angst. Old souls tend not to angst over relationships anywhere near as much, although they aren't immune to relationship problems. Nobody is immune to them! One big difference is that a Mature soul will expect people to behave according to the current social norms, or else work on changing the norms. Old souls are a lot more liberal.

HTH

John Roth

[Chiara DB]

I have some rules of thumb I follow to figure this out:

Big Picture vs. People Picture

Mature souls are able to take forays into the big picture, and they are very interested in it, but their primary focus is still very much on people and their doings. There is a lot of attachment and worry about goings-on between people. Old souls focus very naturally on the big picture, and they are a lot more philosophical about life in general and about the doings of other people.

Searching Eyes vs. Mellow Eyes

Mature souls have a kind of a searching and hopeful look in their eyes, where old soul eyes look more mellow and relaxed, often with a humorous glint.

Energy and Presentation

In general, the mature soul has a more nervous, coltish energy about them, where an old soul will seem more rounded and mellow. Also, mature souls are more socially acceptable. They may be "counter cultural," trying to change the young soul culture, but they're still very much part of the culture. Old souls, on the other hand, can be total eccentrics without even trying to be or realizing that they are. They are also trying to change things, but in their own special old soul way, which everyone else may think is totally worthless or non-existent. Old souls can come off as strangely lazy or purposeless (not that they are, just that they come off that way to other soul ages), where mature souls always appear to be striving for a goal, though the goals are different than those of young soul goals, obviously.

For me, it's the focus on people vs. big picture that really clinches it when it seems like the person could go either way.

[Dave]

Here's an article at the MT site that compares Mature & Old souls, but these things are always a bit generalized.

http://www.michaelteachings.com/mature_old.html

I like Chiara's rules of thumb. Very nice.

Best,
Dave

[Old Scholar-Artisan]

Color Me Curious, Doris...  What soul age are you?   

My perception of the difference between an OS and a MS is one of energetic complexity.  I just sense a lot more depth, spiritually, in an old soul.  Not in terms of what they are out doing i their lives, mind you.  I'm speaking strictly of the energetic feel they have to me.

OSA

[Velleity]

I like Chiara's distinctions too.

This is especially true for me:
Mature souls are able to take forays into the big picture, and they are very interested in it, but their primary focus is still very much on people and their doings.

I'm a mature soul (oh no), and feel very self centered even though I can relate to quite a few old soul characteristics (which is how I found the MT in the first place). I would be an old soul, but yeah I'm still just really focused on my inner landscapes and emotions (beyond my overleaves of passion and emotional centering), am really interested in psychology/madness, etc. And am loving the MT because of their 'applicability' to my life. It's difficult for me to just study the teachings, it's a compulsion to put them to the test in my life and other people I know. So in a lot of ways it's difficult to be on a discussion board as I'd rather have a journal explaining how it all relates to me! It's hard to detach enough to just "discuss", if that makes sense, and I can feel annoyingly 'mature' and that I'm not contributing much at all as it all has to come from 'my perspective'. But it's hard to help it.   

I'm sure I'm plenty energetically complex (in a stupidly 'raw' angst suffering sense)... but perhaps not in the same way an old soul might be... and I can sense the 'gulf', but can't exactly always do anything about it.

[KarenH]

Mature souls usually are involved in lots of relationship angst. Old souls tend not to angst over relationships anywhere near as much, although they aren't immune to relationship problems. Nobody is immune to them! One big difference is that a Mature soul will expect people to behave according to the current social norms, or else work on changing the norms. Old souls are a lot more liberal.

"Liberal," not in the political sense.  :-)  There sometimes is the tendency to associate an old soul liberality as also political.

However, I think this is more the case of an old soul pretty much accepting people where they are at any particular moment in time.

I'm thinking of my son, who is a first level old soul.  Right now, at the age of 24, he's still manifesting much of the mature soul relationship angst, although that is probably because of his physical age and inexperience in this life.  He is still learning about relationships in this time and place, and a first level old soul will slip back into mature soul attitudes every once in a while.

However, he does have a unique ability to assess who is trustworthy and who isn't, and this is not based on social norms or affiliation with any particular group, which is what I have often observed identified mature souls to base their sense of trustworthiness.

In other words, I have observed my husband--a 4th level mature soul--to tend to believe people who are part of a social group to be more trustworthy than others.  My son, on the other hand, will be approached by a homeless person on the street and he will immediately know whether that person is trying to scam him or sincerely asking for help, even though it's obvious that most people would find an approaching homeless person to be at least suspect if not someone to avoid.  He has a record of being suspicious of people who seem all right on the surface, only to be proven accurate in his suspicion, much to others' consternation.

I'm not saying that all old souls are that perceptive; I suspect that my mature-souled husband can be just as perceptive except that he lets his tendency toward group affiliation get in his way, whereas my son seems to be rather fluid about the groups he associates with.

I suppose that may be a key:  mature souls are concerned about personal/group associations, whereas old souls aren't particularly, unless it serves their purpose to be so.
 

--Karen H.

[Chiara DB]

That is the interesting things about mature souls -- they are plenty spiritually complex! I think the analogy to the human life cycle is very apt -- when you are dealing with a teenager, you are dealing with someone who basically has the psychological complexity of an adult. It's just that they are new to having that adult complexity, so they are seeking their identity and how they fit into the world with this new complexity of consciousness. Also, they are flooded with hormones that impel them to get into intense/karmic situations (sex, love, social stuff). I think that's a pretty good description of the mature soul in the world, sans hormones of course

As another example of mature soul complexity, I notice that while young souls cannot "get" me at all, mature souls actually kind of can. They tend to see true things about old souls (sometimes very penetratingly or shockingly, because we're used to kind of being invisible in the young soul society!), but where they sometimes go off is in their interpretation. That makes perfect sense if you consider that it's hard to understand a place you haven't actually been yet! They can SEE it, but they don't get what it means to ME, as I have different focuses and values than they do.

[mtscholar]

Where I feel different from the mature soul description is in not wanting to participate in group action to right perceived wrongs. I see lots of stupidity and injustice in the world, but have this--fatalistic--feeling that things won't really get worked out until the average soul age goes up a few notches. But perhaps my reluctance to join groups comes from being a Scholar.

[John Roth]

Where I feel different from the mature soul description is in not wanting to participate in group action to right perceived wrongs. I see lots of stupidity and injustice in the world, but have this--fatalistic--feeling that things won't really get worked out until the average soul age goes up a few notches. But perhaps my reluctance to join groups comes from being a Scholar.

An old soul will participate or not as it feels right; they won't go along with the agenda of some group they happen to participate in.

For example, my congregation has just decided (read - railroaded by the assistant minister while the senior minister was away on sabbatical) to do an 18 month thing on immigration. I'm not going to participate because I see it as ultimately futile. Not that immigration isn't a cause that's got a lot of injustice currently, but because the current political climate will guarantee than any gains won't stick, and also that it has a head-in-the-sand attitude to the coming resource exhaustion crisis.

Mature souls still don't have the overview. They tend to get involved in good causes from the viewpoint of their own social group. That doesn't mean that old souls automatically do, but they usually need fewer thumps from the clue bat to get it.

HTH

John Roth